[ coughs ] [ male announcer ] ...you can't let a cold keep you up tonight. ♪ vicks nyquil powerful nighttime 6-symptom cold & flu relief. ♪ thanks for disrupting your afternoon. i'm karen finney. workers fight for fair treatment. women fight for individual freedom. and liz cheney fights the changing definition of the american family. it's all coming up in this hour. >> the great fight about time is the fight for fairness in this country. >> black friday protests at walmart. >> allow us to make at least the poverty line. >> we're proud of the pay that we have, also. we pay in the top half of the retail industry. >> they seem relatively happy because they have a job. >> a living wage is important for the community. >> many retailers work around the clock today, trying to earn minimum wage. >> no one who works full-time should have to live in poverty.

raise the federal minimum wage. >> i don't think raising the minimum wage and history is clear about this doesn't accomplish the goals. >> the senate expected to vote on an increase that would bring the min numb wage up to $10.10 but it's got no chance in the house. >> when you raise the price of employment, guess what happens. you get less of it. >> there's not one scintilla of evidence to show that raising the minimum wage in the past has cost jobs. >> shouldn't we all want an economy in which everyone can succeed? so i want you to meet the new welfare queen circa 2010. walmart and mcdonald's and others that reap billions in profits and paying the workers such low wages that we the people subsidize their employees in the form of government programs like s.n.a.p. and medicaid that thousands rely on.

now, remember congressman paw ryan and others talking about makers and takers and not wanting working people to be lulled into dependency? the reality is that these working people they are the ones that he's talking about. and mr. ryan, they work multiple jobs to make ends meet and yet they have to rely on the very programs like s.n.a.p. that you want to cut. based on some false notion that somehow asking for help makes somebody lazlazy. it's the insidious circle of policy that policies are blind to. worker vs taken to the streets to demand fair wages. president obama and democrats in congress have proposed an increase in the federal minimum wage and a number of states and localities are putting it to a vote with more measures expected on ballots across the country for the 2014 elections. so far, speaker boehner and house republicans oppose an increase. despite the fact that 7 in 10

americans support it. and recently, congressman paul ryan attempted to pivot to talking about poverty issues trying to show a kind of softer side. but as we're likely to see in the budget discussions, he can talk the talk but his policies will not walk the walk. joining me now to discuss this ever growing war on the american worker is the cycle's krystal ball, a contributor and rashad robinson. thank you all for being here. >> thank you. >> thanks for having us. >> krystal, you were there yesterday at one of the protests going on around the country and give us a sense of what it was like on the ground and, you know, we have heard varying versions from those who support walmart and those who support the workers. >> yeah. well, i can tell you from my perspective there was a great energy there. i was impressed by the large number of people that showed up. i had the chance to talk to a

few walmart workers literally risking their job to speak out in support of better wages for themselves and for their co-workers. i poke to one woman who was supporting a family, a baby and an older daughter with her husband. but she recognized she could lose her job and she said she got over that fear and out there because it was the right thing to do. so, that energy was remarkable just being there on the ground and i spoke to some of the organizers today and they told me that in comparison to last year's black friday protest they had far more people involved. last year was 30,000 and said it's more than that this year and they had over 1,500 protests around the country. so there's very much a sense that there is momentum building. there's a wave building in support of workers and in support of a living wage around the country. >> and i also think that as people become more aware, rashad, of the reality and we have got wisconsin is just one example of a state where we wanted to kind of break down the

numbers and show the number of total walmart workers in wisconsin, 3,089 employees and mcdonald's about 1,086. in wisconsin, 998 employees. but then when you take a look at the number of those worker who is then rely on medicaid, it's pretty substantial numbers and then looking at the cost to taxpayers, therefore, i mean, we're subsidizing. i mean, this is a form of corporate welfare. and this, by the way, is on top of tax breaks that you know they already get. right? some of them keep the money offshore. we know about offshoring and other kinds of tax breaks they get that everybody's fighting, you know, we can't close the loopholes at the top and yet their own workers by their own admission are relying on the programs. >> absolutely relying on the programs. during orientation sessions at mcdonald's and walmart, we have seen that they have actually referred their employees on how to actually go about filling out the forms and receiving food

stamps or other services. instead of paying a living wage. look. these workers want to work. we have been -- my organization is working to support the walmart strikes for two years now and we have -- like krystal said, we saw the every day workers being brave. these workers want to work and these companies have a sfoernlt to not take money from taxpayers to flip the bill for their massive profits but to pay the workers a living wage. >> krystal, they're making profit on the top end and not reinvesting in the workers. they could afford to pay what would i could call a just wage to the workers and plenty to buy cadillacs and furs and whatever else that the top 1 percenters want. >> right, no. that's absolutely the case. they can certainly afford to pay the $12 an hour that these demonstrators are asking for. and i think that the case we

need to make, as well, that is pretty obvious, is that paying workers starvation wages is not good business either. you can look at a model of a costco. they pay their workers well. they operate on the same razor thin margins and the company's doing very well. walmart, on the other hand, seen declining sales within their u.s. stores and they're seeing a lot of bad press in the business journalism from bloomberg and other places pointing out they can't stock the shelves. the stock is a mess. the customer vs to wait in long lines and what their strategy is to underpay workers, to not have enough workers is really hurting the bottom line at this point and not good business. >> right. you know, we have an sot from walmart ceo to play in fair -- give them fair hearing. i disagree with his points but we'll play it and talk about it on the other side. >> we have the largest -- one of

the largest percentages of full-time work in retail and we pay not top third of industry. you can enter our company any age from 16 to 66 and we have a lot of opportunity for people to work their way and progress as you move forward. >> now, he really didn't answer the question that was asked. >> right. >> of him. i mean, good pr work. no question. but that's not what we're talking about. >> i think that the word that stands out for me and all of this is dignity. right? conservatives talk about you need the dignity of work. you need the dignity of work. what about people working full-time? they deserve the dignity of not being on well fair and food stamps. you shouldn't have to worry about food on the table working 40 hours or worry about not being able to pay child care or transportation costs to get to the job. >> right. >> that just doesn't work out. so i think for the bottom line is we the taxpayers are cheated

because walmart is padding the profits and we pay for the food stampls for their employees. >> making up the difference. rashad, we have the budget deadline coming. paul ryan is, you know, he says that he cares about workers and let's not lull them into, you know, that sense of complacency but if you look at the agenda and i guess this to me is the most insidious part as i mentioned in the open, he is trying -- he wants to cut the program that is many of these workers rely on because they're underpaid from their employers who are reaping profits and by the way they continue to say, we cannot do anything to in any way, shape or form touch the 1% at the top. these workers are who we're talking about. >> this is what we dealt with in the last election. we thought we dealt with it. exactly. people came out to the polls in record numbers and particularly black and brown communities

which, you know, many of these workers are coming from and the fast food industry and walmart workers. walmart is largest employer of african-americans in this country. we have seen the fast food strikes around the country led by black and brown women around the country. the workers are trying to take care of their families. they're trying to close the growing income gap and wealth gap that we are continuing to see while we see those on the right not recognizing the rising american electorate and not recognizing this people want something different and will turn out in elections and make their voices heard. the republican vs an opportunity to do better in these next couple of debates but, you know, all their rhetoric is pointed the other way. >> krystal, this is what president obama is fighting for and you're seeing efforts all across the country and yet the republicans, the conservatives, still seem to be adamant against any efforts to close these wage

gaps. i see that's politically an untenable position at a point because there's momentum and it's not just i think the momentum of the people that you were with yesterday being willing to take that risk and protest, but i think a lot of us are saying, wait a second. there's something wrong with this picture and this is not -- at a minimum, like you said, it's bad business. >> i think it is untenable and i think we are seeing a wave building that will overcome the fact that the republican party still is basically in the pocket of big business and part of the shift that you are seeing is in a tough economy, a lot of people have had their friends and family struggling to get a job. they know that they're not asking for help because they're lazy. they're asking more help because they really need it and because they're asking for a fair wage to get that dignity of work that we're talking about and they want the dignity of work hard and support their families on the wage. >> absolutely.

thank you all. and don't forget to catch krystal and the gang every day on "the cycle." up next, once again women are the canary in the coal mine. this time the court weighs a rights of an individual versus corporations, you know, they're people, too. later, cheney versus cheney. yes, that's really how you say it. good job! still running in the morning? yeah. getting your vegetables every day? when i can. [ bop ] [ male announcer ] could've had a v8. two full servings of vegetables for only 50 delicious calories.

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corporations are people, my friend. we can raise taxes -- of course, they are. everything corporations earn goes to the people. >> oh, who could forget that pearl of wisdom from the 2012 campaign trail? it may have been ridiculous but

romney's gap actually spoke to a dangerous change in the law that's further corrupted the political system shifting the balance of power from individual freedoms that our founding fathers and mothers fought for. now the issue before the supreme court is whether or not a for-profit corporation can impose the beliefs on the women they employ by denying access to contraception covered under the affordable care act. corporations are people, they say. and should get the same first amendment protections as the rest of us living breathing human beings. when it came to free speech, the supreme court agreed giving us citizens united to launch a thousand superpacs but what about the free exercise of religion? who when do the rights of an institution go so far in trampling the rights of individual women they disadvantage them because they're women? should a corporation like hobby lobby be able to refuse coverage for employees because of his own

religious views? should the views of a small group outweigh the medical needs of thousands of workers or 82% of americans who support access to birth control? with me now, sally kohn and samuel ruis. sally, one thing about this -- >> only one? >> one of -- is this idea of, you know, hear this conversation about, you know, the institutions, the institutions. but what about the individual? i mean, particularly on the right, they love to talk about the constitution but part of the whole idea was there's a balance there. we protect individual rights, not just the institutions. i feel like there was a king or something that was, you know, trying to trample people's rights. >> i was confused on this one, too. we care about the individual when for instance we don't want, you know, that person to have to sit next to a gay person or something like that. or we want to -- worried about the gun rights being

constrained. but in this case, we're more concerned about the institution of the corporation when, you know, and sort of forget the rights of the individual women at stake. it is the sort of -- you know, darned if you do, darned if you don't trying to contort the laws and basically the sort of moral frame work of our society so that conservative norms and pro-corporate norms dominate and anything to consider to be individual rights that fall outside of that, eh, you are on your own. >> raul, particularly if you look at the look at use of contraception, the wide, broad acceptance, people use it whether or not they like it, and a good percentage use it for other things than pregnancy. i take it for migraines. and so, given the widespread reality that this is in our culture for one corporation to be able to say to a group of women, no, we're not going to allow you to exercise the right

that you and your doctor think are the best for your health. >> right. there's a part of me that feels just so astonished that the supreme court is even taking this type of case but they have to because there's the disagreement within the lower courts but the thing to remember is a corporation is a legal entity set up to be distinct from people. >> right. >> in this case, hobby lobby is saying they want that shield for tax benefits but yet coming to women's birth control contraception, they want to be people and invoke the full freedom and rights and this is like having it both. >> it is having it both ways. we have a full screen. limited likts, bankruptcy protections and special provisions in the tax code. they want to be a corporation and get those things and then be able to say, well no, no. we also have religious beliefs that our trump what your belief is. >> let's be clear. this is not about contraception. i mean, you actually could go to hobby lobby and build your own

contraception giving may glue gun, give me a glue gun and styrofoam walls and i got you covered. >> aspirin in there somewhere. >> this is about the ability of the corporations to do whatever the heck they want in our society. >> yeah. >> and if they object to any measure of government that they think in any way infringes on their ability to eke profit out of customers and out of their employees then they're going to fight it tooth and nail. that's really what this is about. >> i feel like it's -- i sit on the board of pro-choice america and we have to fight it on that front but i think to the point you're making, there is a larger issue and it does seem to me there's a slippery slope. if we say this isn't okay, can we say, well, we are not -- what if you are a muslim company and you don't approve of drinking? you don't drink. you don't want your staff drinking. should you then have to cover

alcoholism treatment? >> there's all sorts of provisions -- >> that's not what the people fighting this were thinking but there are all sorts of ways this can go. >> christian scientists, mormons and not just in the realm of religion but to allow to corporations to evade the law, where are we going to go from there? the slippery slope is steep and the one thing i think that hobby lobby does not want to address is there is a compelling, an overwhelming state interest here that congress decided and put into the affordable care act that women should have access, all women to contraception and birth control, too. they wanted to write the agenda in terms of the options and hobby lobby is saying we don't like it and invoking religion. >> as an excuse. there's all kinds of evidence it is an excuse. they don't really have any religious faith. that it is actually we're trying to sort of -- we don't like the law. >> it's selective.

>> even if setting that aside, if it is religious faith, i want to represent other people's beliefs, raul, the thing that strikes me is this is chipping away at the affordable care act. this is yet another attempt to undermine the legitimacy of this president and this policy. >> right. and just the fact that this is going to go on, even people who are just paying attention to this, it is just an ongoing battle for obama care, the legitimacy and that alone is not good. but also, just to be clear on one thing, for anyone that's not followed this closely, there is an exemption for religious organizations for nonprofits, service organizations, from this mandate so groups truly involved in religion and social welfare, they can opt out. this is a private for-profit, this is a business. a family corporation. >> as raul pointed out, a corporation that wants to have the protections of corporations on the one hand and then doesn't on the other. >> freedoms of -- >> corporation does something

wrong, the individuals behind that corporation are shielded because they've incorporated. they're shielded. they want that sort of corporate individual blood brain barrier to not go that way but they want it the other way and the personal views used to impose them on their employees. and that just -- can't kind of have it both ways. the other thing is, you have to think about to raul's point. what religion would they pick here? we start to say corporations pick religion. it's fascinating that this decision unfolded at the same time that the new pope unveiled his very pointed critique of capitalism the way that many large corporations in america are practicing it. >> within christianity, whose brand of christianity? nazarene, southern baptist? >> i nominate baha. i think all corporations -- >> i feel like -- >> i mean that as no offense because i have no idea what that

means. >> i feel like that's maybe part of why there was an idea of a constitution and we would have government protections to make sure some of these, you know, thorny issues didn't have to get worked out at this level. >> they're using the freedom of religion restoration act. that was never intended -- if you go back, the intent of the law never for businesses but for people, for individuals who felt that their rights were being abridged by the government. >> it is a very interesting case. we're all going to be watching it very closely. it is quite alarming. thank you both. ahead, it's a fact, the pope is not a disciple of carl marx. no matter what rush limbaugh says. decisions, decisions. one all-american gal and the big choice to make in 2016. that's in your fyi. ♪

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so it's a fact that rush limbaugh now claims that not only is president obama a marxist, so is pope francis. yes, you heard me correctly. he says the pope is a marxist which, of course, is not a fact. seems he came across the pope's vision statement released this week and he just did not like what he read. >> i have been numerous times to the vatican. it wouldn't exist without tons

of money. but, regardless, what this is -- somebody has either written this for him or gotten to him. this is just pure marxism coming out of the mouth of the pope. >> as usual, rush misses the point. the pope was denouncing trickle down economics as a policy, not confirmed by facts. he was calling for catholics everywhere to resist excessive capitalism and materialism reiterating the tyranny imposed by growing income equality and a need to focus on poverty and the pure. now, it's a fact that all these ideas are consistent with both catholic teaching and sound economic policy. it's a fact that catholic vs a long-held belief in the just wage and the connection between work and the one's dignyty and trickle down economics did not work. the bush tax cuts of 2001 and

2003 lowered rates for the wealthy. they increased the deficit and never produced the robust job growth that was promised. rush's comments said the pope's comments were pure political. you know, rush, i have a question for you. since whether is poverty political? here to help me answer that question is contributor and "the washington post" columnist ej dion. thank you for being with me. >> thank you. if you had doubts about the pope before, i bet rush resolved those doubts for you. >> i think rush probably helped the pope's numbers. he's got pretty strong numbers. i want to start with the concept of the manifesto and what he meant and it was so distorted and twisted by rush. he made the emphasis on social justice, caring for the poor and the idea that the church should be out doing the work, not just waiting for people to come in.

>> right. well, first of all, you are absolutely right. the catholic social teaching is critical of unregulated capitalism all the back to pope leo xiii and the pope isn't a marxist. he is a christian. he's not a materialist. he believes in the primacy of the spiritual. but what the pope is reminding us is that a christian view, love thy neighbor srks a fairly radical view. there's stuff in the document if you wrote it in your script your producer would say, isn't that a little too radical, karen? for example, today everything comes under the laws of competition and the survival of t the the fittest where the powerful feed on the powerless and masses of people are excl e excluded without work, possibilities or means of hope. he is saying if you are a serious christian, you're going

to do something about the injustice of our economy. >> but, you know, e.j. to me that doesn't sound so radical as a democrat and part of the reason i'm a democrat is because i'm a christian. you know, this's not a radical idea. it's reality of what's been happening. when we -- this idea, also, that, you know, the concept of a just wage, that's not a new idea in kath ol schism. "america" magazine wrote about this. this is a very common long-time, long-held tenet in terms of how we talk about work and just wages. this is not just the pope jumping on board the train of increasing the minimum wage for kicks. >> no. absolutely right. the american catholic bishops put out a document which in many ways was a foundation of the new deal. in 1919, they put out, their program of social reconstruction and they talked about a family wage. a wage to raise a family on. and a just wage.

so you're quite right and it is not anti-capitalist as such to believe that working people should be compensated adequately for the work they do. >> right. >> i should say, you know, conservative catholics have been saying if you look at the document, the pope does reaffirm the church's opposition to abortion and he does and what's interesting is he also leaks that back to the need for economic justice. and i think what you're seeing here is not a change in the church's position on abortion. but a return to the priorities of the church, say, of 20 or 30 years ago where abortion was part of what the cardinal called the seamless garment. you better care about what happens to them after they're born. >> right. >> and he's -- go ahead. >> to that point, i mean, talking about trickle down economics as part of that is, again, seems like part of it is a reality, i think it is a truth that it does not work.

we have not seen it work and so to cast -- the pope was very -- it was very pointed. it was, you know -- which i loved seeing. but it was also obviously the point at which, you know, i think he'll get the most criticism from the right and he was very blunt saying, quote, some people continue to defend trickle down theories assuming that economic growth encouraged by a free market will succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. this opinion which has never been confirmed by the facts expresses a crude trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and the writings of the prevailing economic system and the excluded are still waiting. that is essentially what we have been seeing in this country. it's what we have been seeing in europe with the austerity measures and this idea that these -- trickle down and austerity measures are not working and we've got to reframe how we think about this because there are more and more poor people and the gap is growing.

>> right. and i'm glad you read that because i have right in front of me here those very same words and i think they're powerful because he is not -- he is saying this as a matter of fact. he is saying that if you look at what has actually happened, the idea that you make everybody better off by throwing money at rich people has just not been confirmed by the fact and the way he says it, he also underzoers the trickle down economics is really a way to make the powerful more powerful. >> right. >> and i think the other thing about the pope that's important to understand he is from argentina. he is from the global south and so he is giving us a perspective on these questions in the church that we haven't had before which is to say he's building on the existing tradition but he also looks at poverty from the perspective of some of the poorest people on earth. >> right. >> and when you think about the very, very poor in the world, it's a real call to responsibility to the rest of us, and that's what he's trying

to do and what a pope ought to do, i think. >> e.j. two more points to get in with you. one is the gop. right? because, you know, paul ryan considers himself, you know, a good catholic. we are, you know, awaiting, you know, this budget process, december 15th. i do not believe that it is going to be consistent with the kind of theory that the pope is talking about. and yet, you know, on the right over and over again they use the bible, they sort of throw it at democrats. they throw it out to justify a lot of things and for once i feel like here we have the pope actually backing up what we have been saying for a long time. again, as you say, throwing money at rich people does not solve the problem. >> right. well, i really hope from's conservative catholics out there who do look at their conscious. as i always joke and proves i'm a catholic that the church's job is to make all of us feel guilty about something. and that, you know, that the

church calls us to account on abortion all the time. but it's not been as balanced as it is in this pope's teaching. he's also saying to conservatives, you really have to look again at your politics if you think that cutting spending on the poor, cutting food stamps for goodness sake, food for the poor, that that makes sense in light of being a christian. and so, i think maybe there will be some conservative catholics, i really hope so, who listen to the pope saying, maybe we better rethink some of this at least a little bit. >> e.j. very quickly, you know, we have got "meet the press" tomorrow and he made a comment kind of walking back away from what i think many have felt very anti-gay sentiments coming from the church and one of the things he says, well, i think maybe we've been out-marketed sometimes. we have been caricatured as

being anti-gay and as much as we'd say, wait a minute, we're pro marriage, pro traditional marriage and not anti-anybody and feels like to the point you were making before, the direction out of rome, focus on the poor, not necessarily as you say changing position on abortion, but also, when it comes to gay people, this to me represents a change in tone certainly to say, well, we are not trying to be anti-anybody. i think it's more complicated than being marketed or out-marketed if you will. >> well, i think the pope really shocked everyone when he was asked about this a while back when he said, who am i to judge? i guess a lot of us thought judging is what a pope did for a living so it was astonishing thing to say. i think it's unfortunate he used out-marketed but i do welcome the softer tone and i think in keeping with where francis is going. i think what happened on gay marriage is people looked at it, fairly conservative people and have said that, you know, if we

believe in fidelity and commitment, if we think fidelity and commitment should be promoted, should we really exclude a whole lot of brothers and sisters from that possibility? i actually think oddly the conservative case for gay marriage is probably the best case for gay marriage and i hope some day a long time from now probably the church starts thinking about that. but i don't expect that to happen any time soon. >> we have to leave it there. e.j. thank you so much for joining me. >> great to be with you. thank you. coming up, shehold it is card on a big election year decision. which she am i talking about? that's next in your fyi. [ mom ] hey guys.

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waiting for one woman to make a very big decision on 2016. no, i know what you're thinking. it is not hillary. it's sasha obama. the younger daughter will be a high school sophomore in 1026 and in aex collusive interview with barbara walters, her dad says she has a bit of sway over the post-white house plans. >> so you may want to stay in washington because of sasha? i don't want to pin you down but i am. >> let's put it this way. sasha will have a big vote. >> oh, yes, she will. that's your fyi. it's ain't easy being a cheney. that's coming up next. [ grunts softly ]

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what do you think about gay marriage? >> i think freedom means freedom for everybody and you ought to have the right to make whatever choice you want to make with respect to your own personal

situation. >> it's been a rough couple of weeks for the cheney family or should i say cheney as my colleague chris matthews insists? as oldest daughter liz fights tooth and nail to win a wyoming senate seat? pushing back against poll numbers, accusations and criticisms for raising most of her money out of state, liz seems to have hit a new low. this time, exploiting the relationship with her only sister in what seems to be an attempt to appear as conservative as possible, liz cheney recently declared on air that she believes in, quote, the traditional definition of marriage. now, that's despite the fact that her sister mary is a lesbian and raising a family with her wife heather. but what started as a family feud is also emblem attic of the challenges for gop writ large given america's changing demograph demographics.

some can't seem to accept the reality of fraurd progression of gay rights in our country. we saw conservatives this week outraged after president obama referenced same-sex couples in his yearly thanksgiving proclamation with some calling it the favorite hobby horse and in fact, the president's statement was consistent with what he has long said and with what i would consider the holiday spirit in this season of peace and love for all mankind. quote, he said, this tradition reminds us that no matter what our background or beliefs, no matter who we are or who we love, we are americans. indeed, we are. and like the cheney family, the reality is that families in america come in many configurations and at tuesday about marriage and family are changing whether the gop, liz cheney likes it or not. joining me to discuss, goldie taylor and kevin noble-malard.

thank you to you both for joining me. i want to start with the politics of what liz cheney was doing here and does strike people at craven. i read that mary found out this is what liz was going to say heard about it. saw it on television. she didn't have the decency to tell her in advance and seems like a political ploy and i think it shows how potent this issue is as, you know, as one of those issues if you're going to try to prove with the far right. >> sure. i think number one, i think we all have to be very, very grateful the family dynamics don't are to play out in the public square and we work it out and the neighbors don't hear about it every day. liz cheney is another story. she's been in the public eye for quite sometime and so, you know, she should have well understood that whatever her public persona was going to be had to square with the personal believes but i

think it does here. unfortunately, i think it does. unfortunately, i don't think she is running to the right. i think she's standing on the right. i think she's the place everybody else is trying to run. her real problem here is, you know, this is the party of family values that there's not a lot of value shown for her own family. that's the real issue. on top of not being, you know, quite so progressive on lgbt issues. >> kevin, it strikes me when we hear the republicans, you know, attacking president obama time and time again on this issue, but as goldie points out, this is reality. american families come in all different kinds of configurations and it feels like, you know, they have haven't figured out how to deal with it and they attack obama to kind of get out of it. >> right. because the families have always been in our country. right? there have always been unfar ried people, single moms, interracial couples. it is not anything new but the difference here is that now it's in the public eye and it's

almost as if these people who are resisting this type of family are saying, you're stuffing it down our throats. even though it's already always been here. >> i want to -- i have a full screen of something that was said about gay marriage and i was talking about with e.j. dionne saying i think maybe we've been out-marketed sometimes. we have been caricatured about being anti-gay. if the pope and the cardinals and the catholic church are, you know, taking some steps back from trying to be seen as not being seen as so anti-gay, the gop, who they got left to vote for them? there's nobody left. >> the tent seems to be getting markedly smaller. we said love the sinner, hate the sin and that's saying that being a lesbian or gay is a sin. i don't think the church is backed up that far. i think they're looking if for a more compassionate way to cloak the bigotry.

that's what i think it is. it isn't that traditional families are under assault by society. it is that traditional families are evolving under the pressures of some positive, some negative that are brought on by society and evolving in good ways whether it's a single mom or a married, you know, lesbian couple. whatever that incarnation happens to be. it's about people getting together and engaging in loving and peaceable ways to add to the fabric of the community that is surround them and ought to be about. >> i think it is also about just expanding the definition of traditional family. >> family. >> family is just supporting. do you eat dinner? do you clean your house snogt do you love each other? it is not about the status, whether the people are married or whether they're accepted by the community. but instead, about how they relate to each other so it should be about the action that they do as a family than rather how they're defined by the

society. >> pew has a study looking at the increase in support of marriage equality, the millennial generation, far more accepting. they don't care and they're the future of the republican and the democratic party, by the way. about a third of americans accept the changing family dynamics and about a third reject and about a third kind of figure, well, it is probably going to happen. i'm not sure the impact. point being majority of americans accept the fact that the family's dynamic is changing. right? again, it feels like the gop stuck in the mud way back there and the rest of us move on. >> i think there's something to that and highly political about that. i don't think it's necessarily -- i think people are afraid of change afraid of losing power. >> sure. >> the traditional marriage, there was social currency to that. there was a that us the attached to a man and woman and white picket fence and currency to that and no longer is it quite as potent because, you know, real family values are coming out now and evolving in a

different way and so much symbolism applied to the white picket fence and all married families are high income earning, they have fences and then everyone else is like playing ban jos and doing the me fashs things. >> we have to leave it there. thank you to you. that does it for me. thank you for joining me. i'll see you back here tomorrow afternoon. at coca-cola we believe in giving people choices. especially today, as people are looking for more low, and no calorie options. that's why on vending machines, we're making it easy for people to know how many calories are in their favorite beverages, before they choose. and we're offering more low calorie options, including over 70 in our innovative coca-cola free-style dispensers. working with our beverage industry and restaurant partners, we're helping provide choices that make sense for everyone. because when people come together, good things happen.

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